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	<title>Comments on: Assorted notes on bootstrapping Cuntoo</title>
	<atom:link href="http://thetarpit.org/2019/assorted-notes-on-bootstrapping-cuntoo/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://thetarpit.org/2019/assorted-notes-on-bootstrapping-cuntoo</link>
	<description>"Now I feel like I know less about what that blog is about than I did before."</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 05 Apr 2026 08:30:09 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://thetarpit.org</generator>
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		<item>
		<title>By: An absolutely filthy recipe for mirroring Debian repositories &#171; The Tar Pit</title>
		<link>http://thetarpit.org/2019/assorted-notes-on-bootstrapping-cuntoo#comment-432</link>
		<dc:creator>An absolutely filthy recipe for mirroring Debian repositories &#171; The Tar Pit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2020 06:50:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetarpit.org/?p=343#comment-432</guid>
		<description>[...] and without. Thus at some point I stopped installing Debian on new systems, then I played with it just recently for bootstrapping processes, then I got pissed at the whole "computing" thing and thought [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] and without. Thus at some point I stopped installing Debian on new systems, then I played with it just recently for bootstrapping processes, then I got pissed at the whole "computing" thing and thought [...]</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Building TRB on Debian Wheezy; a report &#171; The Tar Pit</title>
		<link>http://thetarpit.org/2019/assorted-notes-on-bootstrapping-cuntoo#comment-344</link>
		<dc:creator>Building TRB on Debian Wheezy; a report &#171; The Tar Pit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2020 10:15:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetarpit.org/?p=343#comment-344</guid>
		<description>[...] tuned in to my recent Debian adventures. I personally find it relevant within the larger area of bootstrapping systems, and while it perhaps doesn't bring much news, this field report serves as a reference on how to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] tuned in to my recent Debian adventures. I personally find it relevant within the larger area of bootstrapping systems, and while it perhaps doesn't bring much news, this field report serves as a reference on how to [...]</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: TMSR OS, January 2020 Statement &#171; Dorion Mode</title>
		<link>http://thetarpit.org/2019/assorted-notes-on-bootstrapping-cuntoo#comment-231</link>
		<dc:creator>TMSR OS, January 2020 Statement &#171; Dorion Mode</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jan 2020 04:12:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetarpit.org/?p=343#comment-231</guid>
		<description>[...] Trinque published Cuntoo November 2018 and between then and November 2019, diana_coman , bvt , spyked , hanbot , lobbes , mod6 , and shinohai had published installation [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Trinque published Cuntoo November 2018 and between then and November 2019, diana_coman , bvt , spyked , hanbot , lobbes , mod6 , and shinohai had published installation [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: spyked</title>
		<link>http://thetarpit.org/2019/assorted-notes-on-bootstrapping-cuntoo#comment-193</link>
		<dc:creator>spyked</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Dec 2019 09:52:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetarpit.org/?p=343#comment-193</guid>
		<description>@&lt;b&gt;Robinson Dorion&lt;/b&gt;: It was nice to see indeed, if frustrating at the beginning. I tried as much as possible to work from clean sources, so I had to manually copy the Keccak sig every time I untarred the archive. Forgot to do this once or twice and when I finally got it right, I had to rewrite portions of this article to get the new results in.

Re. QEMU setup: getting the runs ready didn't take more than a couple of hours (mostly debugging), but the dead blocking hours waiting for the results were quite annoying. GCC 5.4 takes significantly more time and RAM to compile than the 4.9 build, which on a more minimal system (e.g. &lt;a href="http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-03-06#1900587" rel="nofollow"&gt;the lenovo S10&lt;/a&gt; I've acquired from Stan) makes builds practically impossible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<b>Robinson Dorion</b>: It was nice to see indeed, if frustrating at the beginning. I tried as much as possible to work from clean sources, so I had to manually copy the Keccak sig every time I untarred the archive. Forgot to do this once or twice and when I finally got it right, I had to rewrite portions of this article to get the new results in.</p>
<p>Re. QEMU setup: getting the runs ready didn't take more than a couple of hours (mostly debugging), but the dead blocking hours waiting for the results were quite annoying. GCC 5.4 takes significantly more time and RAM to compile than the 4.9 build, which on a more minimal system (e.g. <a href="http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-03-06#1900587" rel="nofollow">the lenovo S10</a> I've acquired from Stan) makes builds practically impossible.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Robinson Dorion</title>
		<link>http://thetarpit.org/2019/assorted-notes-on-bootstrapping-cuntoo#comment-188</link>
		<dc:creator>Robinson Dorion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Dec 2019 19:27:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetarpit.org/?p=343#comment-188</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
Rerunning the bootstrapper now finally yields a genesis.vpatch that is identical to Lobbes' and which verifies against Trinque's signature of the Keccak V patch.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I bet that was a nice to see!

&lt;blockquote&gt;
All in all, arriving here required about two weeks of bootstrapper runs, modifications and reruns,
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yikes! How much of that 2 weeks do you attribute to the QEMU set up and the gcc 5.4 fandango ?

&lt;blockquote&gt;
However, I did require a reference genesis.vpatch to do any debugging, and I'm not sure that this is even sufficient. Don't get me wrong, I very much like the idea of using the bootstrapper's output as a basis for further ebuilds, but what am I going to do if I can't even debug the process of producing a verifiable basis?
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yeah, being able to debug the process is needed and ties right in to comment the third concerning publishing your modifications.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>
Rerunning the bootstrapper now finally yields a genesis.vpatch that is identical to Lobbes' and which verifies against Trinque's signature of the Keccak V patch.
</p></blockquote>
<p>I bet that was a nice to see!</p>
<blockquote><p>
All in all, arriving here required about two weeks of bootstrapper runs, modifications and reruns,
</p></blockquote>
<p>Yikes! How much of that 2 weeks do you attribute to the QEMU set up and the gcc 5.4 fandango ?</p>
<blockquote><p>
However, I did require a reference genesis.vpatch to do any debugging, and I'm not sure that this is even sufficient. Don't get me wrong, I very much like the idea of using the bootstrapper's output as a basis for further ebuilds, but what am I going to do if I can't even debug the process of producing a verifiable basis?
</p></blockquote>
<p>Yeah, being able to debug the process is needed and ties right in to comment the third concerning publishing your modifications.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Work plan for (the rest of) M12 2019 &#171; The Tar Pit</title>
		<link>http://thetarpit.org/2019/assorted-notes-on-bootstrapping-cuntoo#comment-186</link>
		<dc:creator>Work plan for (the rest of) M12 2019 &#171; The Tar Pit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Dec 2019 16:15:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetarpit.org/?p=343#comment-186</guid>
		<description>[...] in the way I looked at Trinque's bootstrapper. The two could then be compared along the lines that bothered me the most, at the very [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] in the way I looked at Trinque's bootstrapper. The two could then be compared along the lines that bothered me the most, at the very [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: spyked</title>
		<link>http://thetarpit.org/2019/assorted-notes-on-bootstrapping-cuntoo#comment-181</link>
		<dc:creator>spyked</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Nov 2019 09:22:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetarpit.org/?p=343#comment-181</guid>
		<description>@&lt;b&gt;Diana Coman&lt;/b&gt;: FWIW, I completely agree with &lt;a href="http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-11-29#1953858" rel="nofollow"&gt;MP&lt;/a&gt; re. portage. Now, as to &lt;em&gt;how&lt;/em&gt; Portage can or will be made to obey, that's another question.

@&lt;b&gt;Stanislav Datskovskiy&lt;/b&gt;: Re. GCC, why not just package a signed binary along with the rest of the stage3? Ave1's already spent a lot of time working on GNAT, so IMHO that'd be a proper replacement for GCC 5.4.0.

@&lt;b&gt;bvt&lt;/b&gt;: Re. Musl, I got that, but it's not clear to me whether Cuntoo was supposed to do static linking and just mine didn't, or what. I guess I'll have to review the older Cuntoo log threads to get a better idea of the decisions made there.

Thanks re. the emacs pointer, I'll look into it. From what I understand there should be a magical incantation to patch the ebuild and get it compiling, or is there another package in there, or what?

Re. where kernel installation goes, that makes sense; on the other hand, maybe Trinque did it in that order for some particular reason? Let's see what he says.

@&lt;b&gt;Jacob Welsh&lt;/b&gt;: At some point there was some heated debate about making Emacs portable to other libcs (and as it happens, I can't readily find it), IIRC the GNU people didn't want to give glibc up at all. I don't know what are the main differences between XEmacs and GNU Emacs, but I'm not against completely dumping the latter, provided that I can run e.g. a SLIME/SBCL environment on the former.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<b>Diana Coman</b>: FWIW, I completely agree with <a href="http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-11-29#1953858" rel="nofollow">MP</a> re. portage. Now, as to <em>how</em> Portage can or will be made to obey, that's another question.</p>
<p>@<b>Stanislav Datskovskiy</b>: Re. GCC, why not just package a signed binary along with the rest of the stage3? Ave1's already spent a lot of time working on GNAT, so IMHO that'd be a proper replacement for GCC 5.4.0.</p>
<p>@<b>bvt</b>: Re. Musl, I got that, but it's not clear to me whether Cuntoo was supposed to do static linking and just mine didn't, or what. I guess I'll have to review the older Cuntoo log threads to get a better idea of the decisions made there.</p>
<p>Thanks re. the emacs pointer, I'll look into it. From what I understand there should be a magical incantation to patch the ebuild and get it compiling, or is there another package in there, or what?</p>
<p>Re. where kernel installation goes, that makes sense; on the other hand, maybe Trinque did it in that order for some particular reason? Let's see what he says.</p>
<p>@<b>Jacob Welsh</b>: At some point there was some heated debate about making Emacs portable to other libcs (and as it happens, I can't readily find it), IIRC the GNU people didn't want to give glibc up at all. I don't know what are the main differences between XEmacs and GNU Emacs, but I'm not against completely dumping the latter, provided that I can run e.g. a SLIME/SBCL environment on the former.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Jacob Welsh</title>
		<link>http://thetarpit.org/2019/assorted-notes-on-bootstrapping-cuntoo#comment-180</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob Welsh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Nov 2019 23:58:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetarpit.org/?p=343#comment-180</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;from what I understand, it's not possible to compile Emacs using Musl.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

My "solution" to this was... XEmacs.

Though since the GNU one is supposedly ported to all kinds of systems, it might just be assuming "Linux == glibc" and have a switch accessible somewhere to turn off the "unexec" thing which I recall was the culprit, at the cost of slower startup.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>from what I understand, it's not possible to compile Emacs using Musl.</p></blockquote>
<p>My "solution" to this was... XEmacs.</p>
<p>Though since the GNU one is supposedly ported to all kinds of systems, it might just be assuming "Linux == glibc" and have a switch accessible somewhere to turn off the "unexec" thing which I recall was the culprit, at the cost of slower startup.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: bvt</title>
		<link>http://thetarpit.org/2019/assorted-notes-on-bootstrapping-cuntoo#comment-179</link>
		<dc:creator>bvt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Nov 2019 21:40:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetarpit.org/?p=343#comment-179</guid>
		<description>2. musl does not imply static linking, cuntoo is musl-based but dynamic. And gentoo has 'static' USE-flag for only some packages.

4. emacs support on musl (a hack for its dumper really) should be in, it is added through musl overlay (/var/lib/layman/musl/app-editors/emacs on my system, the overlay is added by default during cuntoo installation). I have never tried to install it there, though.

6. The simples change would be to move kernel configuration and installation to the last step.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>2. musl does not imply static linking, cuntoo is musl-based but dynamic. And gentoo has 'static' USE-flag for only some packages.</p>
<p>4. emacs support on musl (a hack for its dumper really) should be in, it is added through musl overlay (/var/lib/layman/musl/app-editors/emacs on my system, the overlay is added by default during cuntoo installation). I have never tried to install it there, though.</p>
<p>6. The simples change would be to move kernel configuration and installation to the last step.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Implementing TMSR OS &#171; Dorion Mode</title>
		<link>http://thetarpit.org/2019/assorted-notes-on-bootstrapping-cuntoo#comment-177</link>
		<dc:creator>Implementing TMSR OS &#171; Dorion Mode</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Nov 2019 17:45:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetarpit.org/?p=343#comment-177</guid>
		<description>[...] his status. [&#8617;]lobbes is taking up Gentoo portage/ebuild reporting; spyked has published his notes on bootstrapping Cuntoo; it's unclear at present if either wants to own this domain. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] his status. [&#8617;]lobbes is taking up Gentoo portage/ebuild reporting; spyked has published his notes on bootstrapping Cuntoo; it's unclear at present if either wants to own this domain. [...]</p>
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