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	<title>Comments on: Ode to Computer</title>
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	<link>http://thetarpit.org/2019/ode-to-computer</link>
	<description>"Now I feel like I know less about what that blog is about than I did before."</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 25 Apr 2026 20:47:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: The crisis of identity &#171; The Tar Pit</title>
		<link>http://thetarpit.org/2019/ode-to-computer#comment-2965</link>
		<dc:creator>The crisis of identity &#171; The Tar Pit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Sep 2022 19:06:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetarpit.org/?p=340#comment-2965</guid>
		<description>[...] the field of psychology. For example, I tend to spend my time interacting with computers, therefore I must like them, and the liking is as much a part of my identity as are the computers, or rather my representation [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the field of psychology. For example, I tend to spend my time interacting with computers, therefore I must like them, and the liking is as much a part of my identity as are the computers, or rather my representation [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Footnote callback tooltips for MP-WP thetarpit Markdown plugin &#171; The Tar Pit</title>
		<link>http://thetarpit.org/2019/ode-to-computer#comment-424</link>
		<dc:creator>Footnote callback tooltips for MP-WP thetarpit Markdown plugin &#171; The Tar Pit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2020 06:46:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetarpit.org/?p=340#comment-424</guid>
		<description>[...] hour doing this kind of manual labour, when I could just as well allocate that time to program the goddamn machine to do it for [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] hour doing this kind of manual labour, when I could just as well allocate that time to program the goddamn machine to do it for [...]</p>
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		<title>By: 2019 in review &#171; The Tar Pit</title>
		<link>http://thetarpit.org/2019/ode-to-computer#comment-421</link>
		<dc:creator>2019 in review &#171; The Tar Pit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2020 06:45:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetarpit.org/?p=340#comment-421</guid>
		<description>[...] no, I absolutely loathe computers*, but I've spent a sizeable portion of my life getting to understand them and meanwhile [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] no, I absolutely loathe computers*, but I've spent a sizeable portion of my life getting to understand them and meanwhile [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: On computers &#171; The Tar Pit</title>
		<link>http://thetarpit.org/2019/ode-to-computer#comment-297</link>
		<dc:creator>On computers &#171; The Tar Pit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Apr 2020 09:52:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetarpit.org/?p=340#comment-297</guid>
		<description>[...] enough, between computers; in the sense that from two of them connected together, there will fractally emerge yet another one, similar with its two subcomponents, yet different from each of them taken [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] enough, between computers; in the sense that from two of them connected together, there will fractally emerge yet another one, similar with its two subcomponents, yet different from each of them taken [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: When the cold, dark, dusty silence starts to settle in &#171; The Tar Pit</title>
		<link>http://thetarpit.org/2019/ode-to-computer#comment-272</link>
		<dc:creator>When the cold, dark, dusty silence starts to settle in &#171; The Tar Pit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Mar 2020 18:15:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetarpit.org/?p=340#comment-272</guid>
		<description>[...] me face to face with the prospect of plain impossibility, and not of a "sane" computer, but of any useful computer at [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] me face to face with the prospect of plain impossibility, and not of a "sane" computer, but of any useful computer at [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: spyked</title>
		<link>http://thetarpit.org/2019/ode-to-computer#comment-163</link>
		<dc:creator>spyked</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Nov 2019 10:17:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetarpit.org/?p=340#comment-163</guid>
		<description>Lol, I had no idea this discussion would generate this much heat.

Anyway, the examples you're giving are just shitty computers, man, their quality of being slaves doesn't even enter into the discussion at that point. And for the other, intentionally or otherwise, they're shitty because they've been built this way, no other reason -- yes, iPhones also have some computers in them, so what of that? I'm guessing you evaluate genetic defects in your bipedal monkeys &lt;em&gt;before&lt;/em&gt; considering whether they make good slaves, don't you?

Remember ye olde Z80? Or more recently, &lt;a href="http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-11-08#1950246" rel="nofollow"&gt;this&lt;/a&gt;? What about those, are &lt;em&gt;they&lt;/em&gt; terrible slaves? What striving, they don't strive for anything, they're dumb as rocks and ready to be used, that's the story in its entirety.

&gt; "I don't care what you knew or didn't know, you should have known"

Sure, this sort of obedience applies very well to humans, or humans-in-becoming, or whatever you may call them. Computers on the other hand are all form and no substance, all syntax and no meaning, which is what makes me believe DWIM is bullshit and "artificial intelligence" nonsense. You don't expect horses to "do what you mean", yet they make very good workhorses &lt;em&gt;if you work them&lt;/em&gt;. Most importantly though, you own them, so at most you could say that slave-quality doesn't apply to them because they're not human in the first place.

&gt; Now stop parroting nonsense

Now what's so damn wrong with contemplating ideals, anyway? This wasn't an "Ode to Lucian's shitty Raspberry Pi" or anything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lol, I had no idea this discussion would generate this much heat.</p>
<p>Anyway, the examples you're giving are just shitty computers, man, their quality of being slaves doesn't even enter into the discussion at that point. And for the other, intentionally or otherwise, they're shitty because they've been built this way, no other reason -- yes, iPhones also have some computers in them, so what of that? I'm guessing you evaluate genetic defects in your bipedal monkeys <em>before</em> considering whether they make good slaves, don't you?</p>
<p>Remember ye olde Z80? Or more recently, <a href="http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-11-08#1950246" rel="nofollow">this</a>? What about those, are <em>they</em> terrible slaves? What striving, they don't strive for anything, they're dumb as rocks and ready to be used, that's the story in its entirety.</p>
<p>> "I don't care what you knew or didn't know, you should have known"</p>
<p>Sure, this sort of obedience applies very well to humans, or humans-in-becoming, or whatever you may call them. Computers on the other hand are all form and no substance, all syntax and no meaning, which is what makes me believe DWIM is bullshit and "artificial intelligence" nonsense. You don't expect horses to "do what you mean", yet they make very good workhorses <em>if you work them</em>. Most importantly though, you own them, so at most you could say that slave-quality doesn't apply to them because they're not human in the first place.</p>
<p>> Now stop parroting nonsense</p>
<p>Now what's so damn wrong with contemplating ideals, anyway? This wasn't an "Ode to Lucian's shitty Raspberry Pi" or anything.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Mircea Popescu</title>
		<link>http://thetarpit.org/2019/ode-to-computer#comment-161</link>
		<dc:creator>Mircea Popescu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Nov 2019 17:24:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetarpit.org/?p=340#comment-161</guid>
		<description>This is beyond naive nonsense, right there on the level with "Santa Claus is real!!!". Looky that I didn't tell my "perfect slave" that very well fucking isn't to leak my data via time-channel attacks to teh nsa ; nor did I tell it to fail suddenly and spectacularly to run code that previously ran fine ; nor to pop up a "please upgrade" '''notification''' nor any of the other shit.

The computer is the absolute &lt;em&gt;worst&lt;/em&gt; slave, ideal only in that sense, that it's the idealized form of terrible, Amelia Bedelia on steroids. It does anything ~anyone~ tells it to, and it never contributes anything. My actual slaves would be enjoying the death of a thousand cuts if they did ever so evanescently fantly nothing-at-all even vaguely in the general direction of either of these two kinds of sin. 

What they do instead of this supposedly "perfect" obedience is strive for actually perfect obedience : the kind that avoids producing what I do not wish to see, elaborately, reflexively and constructively -- "I don't care what you knew or didn't know, you &lt;em&gt;should have known&lt;/em&gt;" is the cornerstone of slavery, what the fuck did you think obedience was ? Formal obedience disobedient in substance's two to five punishments right there, you think I give the first flying fuck as to how "what you said could have been interpreted" ? I'll just lash the impudent harlot for the protest, first, then once I'm tired of that take a breather and then lash her again for the misbehaviour of such thought, and THEN we're getting finally to punishment on the actual merits on the instant case. 

Now stop parroting nonsense, computers are ideal slaves like vegetables are ideal people. IRL, computers are even worse slaves than they're girlfriends.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is beyond naive nonsense, right there on the level with "Santa Claus is real!!!". Looky that I didn't tell my "perfect slave" that very well fucking isn't to leak my data via time-channel attacks to teh nsa ; nor did I tell it to fail suddenly and spectacularly to run code that previously ran fine ; nor to pop up a "please upgrade" '''notification''' nor any of the other shit.</p>
<p>The computer is the absolute <em>worst</em> slave, ideal only in that sense, that it's the idealized form of terrible, Amelia Bedelia on steroids. It does anything ~anyone~ tells it to, and it never contributes anything. My actual slaves would be enjoying the death of a thousand cuts if they did ever so evanescently fantly nothing-at-all even vaguely in the general direction of either of these two kinds of sin. </p>
<p>What they do instead of this supposedly "perfect" obedience is strive for actually perfect obedience : the kind that avoids producing what I do not wish to see, elaborately, reflexively and constructively -- "I don't care what you knew or didn't know, you <em>should have known</em>" is the cornerstone of slavery, what the fuck did you think obedience was ? Formal obedience disobedient in substance's two to five punishments right there, you think I give the first flying fuck as to how "what you said could have been interpreted" ? I'll just lash the impudent harlot for the protest, first, then once I'm tired of that take a breather and then lash her again for the misbehaviour of such thought, and THEN we're getting finally to punishment on the actual merits on the instant case. </p>
<p>Now stop parroting nonsense, computers are ideal slaves like vegetables are ideal people. IRL, computers are even worse slaves than they're girlfriends.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: spyked</title>
		<link>http://thetarpit.org/2019/ode-to-computer#comment-159</link>
		<dc:creator>spyked</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Nov 2019 09:09:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetarpit.org/?p=340#comment-159</guid>
		<description>@&lt;b&gt;Mircea Popescu&lt;/b&gt;: No. Insofar as obedience is concerned, computers are the closest possible to &lt;em&gt;ideal&lt;/em&gt; slaves. If they do something wrong, it's only because you've told them to -- and they'll do it with mathematical precision too!

@&lt;b&gt;Diana Coman&lt;/b&gt;: Lol, I'd be really surprised if it were able to do that, I'd whip the thing into writing postmodern poetry all the time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<b>Mircea Popescu</b>: No. Insofar as obedience is concerned, computers are the closest possible to <em>ideal</em> slaves. If they do something wrong, it's only because you've told them to -- and they'll do it with mathematical precision too!</p>
<p>@<b>Diana Coman</b>: Lol, I'd be really surprised if it were able to do that, I'd whip the thing into writing postmodern poetry all the time.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Diana Coman</title>
		<link>http://thetarpit.org/2019/ode-to-computer#comment-156</link>
		<dc:creator>Diana Coman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Nov 2019 13:26:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetarpit.org/?p=340#comment-156</guid>
		<description>I suspect this is Lucian's computer taking over thetarpit :D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suspect this is Lucian's computer taking over thetarpit :D</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Mircea Popescu</title>
		<link>http://thetarpit.org/2019/ode-to-computer#comment-155</link>
		<dc:creator>Mircea Popescu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Nov 2019 11:51:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetarpit.org/?p=340#comment-155</guid>
		<description>Computers, for the record, are terrible slaves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Computers, for the record, are terrible slaves.</p>
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